Bitching and whining from a Mr. China success story that hasn’t happened. Yet.

Originally posted by LiHongzhang

Scene: LHZ eating lunch in company cafeteria. Some random Chinese person comes by brandishing a box of rice.

Chinese person: “You’re not eating rice! Here, have some rice.”
LHZ: “No thank you. I don’t like rice. The meat and vegetables are enough for me.”
Chinese person: “But you have to eat rice!”
LHZ: “No thank you. I like my lunch the way it is. No rice needed.”
Chinese person: “But you have to eat rice!”

At this point, there’s two ways to react. One is to stonewall, the other is to question.

The knee-jerk stone wall:
LHZ: “HEY! MIND YOUR OWN EFFIN BUSINESS!!! I DONT @$#@* WANT TO EAT RICE SO $#@& OFF AND LEAVE ME THE $@^# ALONE!!!!”
*Chinese person runs away in fright*

The reaction by questioning:
LHZ: “Why do I have to eat rice?”
Chinese person: “Because rice is a part of a proper Chinese meal.”
LHZ: “Why is it part of a proper Chinese meal?”
Chinese person: “We have a 5,000 year old tradition of eating rice with our meal.”
LHZ: “Are goat cheese and borscht part of a proper Chinese meal?”
Chinese person: “No. Of course not.”
LHZ: “Are the Chinese Mongolians Chinese?
Chinese person: *starts to squirm* “Umm.. Yes.”
LHZ: “Are the Chinese Russians Chinese?”
Chinese person: *blank stare* “What?”
LHZ: *pulls out Blackberry and explains the [俄羅斯族]”
Chinese person: *blinks* “Well, I suppose they are.”
LHZ: “Well if these Mongolians and Russians are both Chinese, then shouldn’t their cuisine be considered Chinese food too?”
Chinese person: “I guess.”
LHZ: “So therefore borscht and goat cheese can be part of a proper Chinese meal, right?”
Chinese person: “Fine.”
LHZ: “So therefore, where do you get your definition of a proper Chinese meal? Why does it always have to include rice? Where’s your borscht and goat cheese, for example?”
Chinese person: *walks off mystified*

(The above is just one example of what I can (and have) pulled. Because I got rice forced on me every day. Believe me, there are literally infinite directions you can go with that premise.)

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LHZ, this was pure philosophical comedy–downright hilarious. Some deliberate jumps in logic there, but all the funnier for it.

This is a tricky one. Because I’m all for expanding people’s horizons, intellectually, culturally, etc. That’s why many of us decide to become teachers (here in China). Why not have them question their own identities? Existentialism certainly needs a jump-start over here, and they could certainly use it. Both Sartre AND Lao Zi couldn’t agree more. If, for nothing else, than to question the logic behind the traffic lane dividers drawn at the corner of Jianguo Lu and Qingchun Lu. (Unless, of course, that’s been changed since I was last back in ol’ HZ.) And it would consistently provide endless hours of comedy for themselves as well if they could just learn to laugh at themselves a little more. And they say a laugh earns a minute more of longevity. So why the hell not?

But on the other hand, one thing I’m very sensitive to is the type of cultural arrogance that can arise from transitioning from an open, developed country, to a country that’s technically only been awake to the rest of the modern world for the last 30 years (since 1980, I suppose). Sensitive to claims of disseminating knowledge, culture, how to be civilized, and even how to think in the 21st century unto “the random Chinese guy,” as you so eloquently put it. Especially from individuals who seem to claim these things without the slightest abandon and introspection. (Knee-jerk mindsets, as you say.) I myself can sometimes be guilty of this as well, but I always try to keep it in check, even on inconsequential message boards. More often than provoking local Chinese to question their identity and beliefs, I love to provoke grumpy, jaded expats to question the same as it pertains to their existence in China.

And believe it or not, expats are usually the more stubborn ones to see things differently than they’ve resigned to. So, you could say, EVERYONE, really, is a product of SOME form of cultural propaganda. Unless they’re TRULY invested in understanding the other side. Which, for better or worse, sometimes DOES require a little conformity and assimilation in order to “get it.”

Imagine the traditional Chinese 20-something female who thinks American women are all whores and over-opinionated b1tches from what she sees in movies and on TV. Until she actually moves to the U.S., conforms, assimilates, and gets a taste of what it’s like to be freely sexually frank without being shunned by her peers and intellectually respected. (Well, to some degree, at least, haha. Boys will be boys.) Or the honor-obsessed Chinese 30-something male who thinks foreign men are all good-for-nothing playboys who are out to humiliate Chinese women everywhere. Until he gets stationed abroad with a good salary in some lesser-developed country in Southeast Asia, or hell, another Chinese city like Guiyang, and then proceeds to assimilate into the no-committments-traveling-salesman’s lifestyle by womanizing like a hyena. (Which, my God, is oh, so true throughout Southeast Asia.)

Anyways, you’ve suddenly piqued my interest in your past experiences here in Hangzhou, though, because hard as it may be to swallow, based on how I’ve gone at it with the tag team known as LiHongZhang and Fu Man Chu (wow, a genuine WWE white-trash stereotype moniker just waiting to be marketed properly), you and I have a lot in common.

Though, our experiences and outlooks seemed to have diverged at an early stage in our “China development.” In that, you seemed to have garnered a whole lot more (comedic) angst than I, even though we’ve both encountered similar situations. Although that may just come down to personality differences, who knows? (Then again, mine comes out in explosive bursts of frustration rather than constant (comedic) ranting, of which my fiancee receives the full brunt, which is arguably worse.)

I’ll PM ya sometime. But it’s too f*cking late now, and I’ve gotta get up at, like, 10am. F*ck me. In the meanwhile, hope to see some replies back on this thread.

Your scenario surprises me, though. Whenever I go to a restaurant in China, it’s the hardest f*cking thing on Earth to actually GET rice, since people rarely order it and waiters are deaf to it. Completely converse to my Chinese restaurant experiences in the U.S., where they bring rice out to you without you even asking.

(By the way, LHZ, I’ve actually learned a lot from your rants on Qing Dynasty currency manipulations and the formation of foreign concessions. It provided a great point for debate!)

Yet another response to a thread at HangzhouExpat.com, a thread intentionally incendiary by asking “Chinese People … Why Do You Love Your Country?“, subtitled with, since your government allows you no freedom of speech and kills its own people, etc.

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I can’t even begin to explain how pointlessly f*cking stupid the premise of this whole topic is. At the expense of exacting warmly welcomed verbal vengeance, I will let my vitriol fly.

The opening call for debate on this thread reads:

“Chinese people say they love China. Why? How can you love a country that arrests people for speaking their mind?”

What then ensues is an 8-page monologue of merry HangzhouExpat.com-ers b*tching and wh*ning about the same exact sh*t and “party line” as what we’re all brainwashed with back home on CNN and BCC with anything related to China. Not so different in the same way people are brainwashed here.

1. Allow me to rephrase Fu Man Chu’s hamfisted call for response: “Hey, Chinese dumbf*ck, your government AND your country (because, of course, as you stated, these two entities–widely differing by definition and interpretation–are inseparable) treats you like donkey sh*t. So, yeah, why do you love it?”

And so, what type of response did you actually expect? You’ve already severely narrowed down their range of answers. It’s like asking, “Which one do you like–A or B–but A’s really bad, worse, no “infinitely worse” (as you yourself stated)? So tell me, A or B?” Well, you really haven’t given them any other choice but to agree with you, now have you?

Perhaps a question to ask yourself is this: Why do you feel the need to post on HangzhouExpat.com in search of “local” responses that you’ve very obviously expected to validate the opinion you already hold? This is not a debate, nor an open-minded topic. This is simply a pointless self-exercise in political masturbation.

2. Why would any sensible local Chinese person want to debate you on this topic on little dipsh*t website HangzhouExpat.com, in YOUR language?

That point has been repeated on this forum countless numbers of times. How culturally arrogant is that in and of itself? If you truly want to discuss the merits and drawbacks of LIFE IN CHINA, then why wouldn’t you post your topic on a CHINESE forum?

I’ve tried this myself, albeit unsuccessfully because of the wrong wording getting my posts deleted by admin, but I’ll offer you this: If you reword your question–as I believe that deep down, there is merit to asking it–I will post it on Sina.com for you and see what responses you get.

There are so many other lame points and poor logic throughout this 8-page moanfest I’ve yet to bash, but to sum it all up, I’ve been on this site for a long, damn time, and honestly, I’m ashamed that so many of you would actually support and condone such culturally arrogant thinking.

There comes a point in every China expat’s life when they may or may not become disgruntled enough to simply bicker all the time about the sh*ttiness of life here and go on and on and on about how life is so much better elsewhere. It’s at the point that, well, maybe it’s time for a move. And Fu Man Chu, I’ve seen you here on this forum for about a year and a half now (correct me if I’m wrong, but often that’s about how long it takes for most to reach the ‘disgruntledness’ phase), and I don’t say this as a threat or anything remotely hostile. I say this from the perspective of helping you keep your own sanity and allowing newbies and veterans alike to form their own opinions of their experiences here.

I think it was Niku who made one of the more interesting rebuttals here. He’s a businessman, and thus cultural understanding and assimilation was a necessity for his survival here.

For those of us who are English teachers or work in that industry, myself included, this is not the case. We are imparters of the world’s most widely used language and the culture that comes with that, ‘cultural ambassadors‘ as LFA called it, and thus are much more prone to cultural arrogance. We tell local people how to speak, how to listen, how to think, how we think they should live. For us, we have almost no obligation to culturally assimilate, no strong need to even bother learning the local language past a basic needs level. And so, we can easily stand on our pedestals and shout down to our pupils to tell them what’s wrong with their lives, their government, their country, their history, their identity. And the next morning, we can continue pushing our language opiate unto the great populace of China.

Because they need us. And they pay us to give them their fix. And as their dealer, you feel you can condescend anonymously behind the closed doors of our humble little dipsh*t forum without any sort of consequence whatsoever to your livelihood or your daily social interactions. Just imagine if all your students found out their teacher, Fu Man Chu (and I don’t think I have to expound on the racist implications of the moniker you’ve chosen for yourself) was talking sh*t about their country on the internet.

Think about that for a moment.

Then again, don’t. This is all just one way of looking at it. Up to you to take it into consideration or not.

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And the only public response received from that was, disappointingly:

Fu Man Chu: (Yes, this is actually what this guy dubs himself. While living in China.)
Ming – I thing CBR did a great job at responding to your comment before it was even posted. All I’m looking for is some Chinese input. You seem to have placed yourself in the role of paternalistic protector of the dignity of the Chinese people. I prefer to believe they can think for themselves. If you think the thread is stupid, then f*ck off.

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And later on down the line …

____________________
Originally posted by Fu Man Chu

Timeline of this Thread -

1. Question put forward.
2. A few foreigners contemplate the question.
3. A couple nationalist Chinese and their foreign apologists begin spitting venom.
4. Thread goes horribly off-topic.
5. Two Chinese people put forth very good answers to the question. Both are ignored by the apologists who continue to argue that Chinese people should not have to answer questions like this.
6. After longing for involvement by Chinese posters, we finally get our wish and the thread is taken over by two Chinese idiots.
7. Thread dies.

It was a nice little experiment that proved a point it wasn’t even meant to prove.

R.I.P.
_____________________

That timeline should really read more like this:

1. Hamfisted, intentionally sensationalistic, single-reply fire bomb lit and tossed.

2. A few HangzhouExpat users chime into the condescending vibe and make themselves feel all good inside about it.

3. A couple of Chinese locals who actually happen to read and use English, a foreign language to them, try, with their limited knowledge of English to do what they know best: deflect, play the blame game, then name call, and possibly tell expat posters to go home.

4. Sensible expat posters who have lived here far longer than inciters here try to write some sense into things by trying to supply an alternative point of view to inciters. (Though, I must say, CBR, I’m a bit disappointed this time ’round.)

5. Manchildren know nothing else than to label them “foreign apologists” because, wow, lo and behold, they DISAGREE with their fellow expats! The one thing they give all Chinese posters a hard time about in every single thread!

6. Thread turns into flaming war, which then temporarily gets extinguished by original poster, who then proceeds with re-lighting his fire bomb. But with earnesty this time!

7. Chinese locals who have bothered to stick around for the fight actually reply earnestly, without poison. Though, they just can’t resist throwing in another blame game reference.

8. Original poster then proceeds to racistly and personally bash every single Chinese response forthwith with acute prejudice and China-be-damned abandon, because Moderators are too busy with their day jobs to actually do anything about this site-sullying disgrace of a thread.

9. Chinese posters continue, in their mediocre English skills, to stage a defense but obviously fail against the rampant cultural circle jerk that has ensued for umpteen pages based on a close-ended question that only ever had one outcome.

Annnd, HangzhouExpat.com bears witness to yet another example that proved something, all right. Proved why this site will never transcend above cultural flame wars to achieve the its actual purpose of trying to bring locals and expats together. All because a small handful of un-moderated posters feel the need to flaunt their ignorance and arrogance.

Welcome to Beverly Hills, Hangzhou.